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Sheriff reacts to response time criticism

July 22, 2013

LISBON — Columbiana County Sheriff Ray Stone responded to criticism coming from Knox Township fire officials concerned about what they say is the slow response time to serious incidents in the......

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concerned

Jul-24-13 9:16 PM

County, twp., village, and city police may take an oath to uphold the State laws within their territory but does that mean they have authority state wide?? Also if an officer goes outside the limits of the sub division that he is employed by, without being asked to assist. Who's liability covers him? Or does he do it without any liability coverage? The sub divisions coverage would probably not cover him while acting outside the sub divisions jurisdiction. Without a proper request he would probably not have any liability coverage to protect him if he makes a mistake.

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Mtlhed

Jul-24-13 7:50 PM

Ok, my bad. My instructors must have been full of crap. When I patrolled military bases I should have went into town and looked for crimes to occur. My understanding is that although multiple courts may apply, you still can't go out of jurisdiction and have any chance of actually getting a conviction. You may be right about the Sebring cop. I have no idea whether he would have been legit or not. If it was legit, you'd think he would have responded into the situation. So why didn't he respond unless he was powerless outside of the Sebring limits or whatever his limits were.

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Nosmoke

Jul-24-13 6:11 PM

Mtlhed...A police officer is sworn to uphold the laws of the State of Ohio as well as any local ordinances. The court does not issue arrest powers to a police officer, the city/township/county and State of Ohio do that. A judge may administer the oath of office to a police officer, but their authority comes from the state, city, etc. The location of the crime determines which court has jurisdiction over the case. A good example would be the State Patrol whose area of responsibility covers many different court's jurisdictions. The Sebring officer may have even been sworn in by the mayor, but his oath included the words "to uphold the laws of the State of Ohio". If the Sebring officer was made aware that a felony had occurred, he had EVERY right to assist without being invited.

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concerned

Jul-24-13 9:28 AM

Mtlhed Good points. A lot of times we look at things and wonder why this or that is not done. We forget that the law dictates how things are to go. Like it or not we are a nation that is run by the rule of law. If we don't like a law we have the right to work to get it changed but as long as it is law we have to obey it. If I were the Sebring policeman I would not have gone out of my jurisdiction without a request either. Then we have the fact that he is paid to risk his life to protect Sebring not the entire world.

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Mtlhed

Jul-24-13 9:04 AM

It's true that nobody will mind a bit if an officer goes in and takes care of the situation, and likely nobody will even know or care that technically he was abusing powers by even acting, except his boss of course. But he could be sued into oblivion if things don't go smooth and easy. My guess is that there's a gray area there as long as he's invited in by a legit responder or if there's some sort of shared agreement, which must not have been the case here. Now the issue of not enough money, not enough deputies, union issues, lack of shared or contractual agreements, etc. etc., all good points and hopefully it can be fixed or at least improved.

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Mtlhed

Jul-24-13 8:57 AM

All good points. I just want to clarify and peel the onion on something that most people don't understand with the term "jurisdiction." A police officer has powers, these powers come from a court (very important). And a court has a given jurisdiction. If the Sebring officer walks in that house as the lead investigator / officer and has no court and therefore no jurisdiction he therefore has no power and is basically tresspassing. Officers are trained in this and that might explain why he just sat there waiting to be invited in by someone with police powers. He knows he can get in big trouble, both criminal and civil if something goes down while he's in there.

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concerned

Jul-23-13 9:14 PM

h t t p : / / codes. ohio. gov / orc / 311.07

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concerned

Jul-23-13 9:13 PM

The answer to most of the questions on the comment page can be found at the following web site. **** :// codes . ohio . gov / orc / 311.07

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WatchDog

Jul-23-13 3:13 PM

You know what ladybug, that jail is a big problem of expense on the taxpayers. That system is a joke and I put a lot of blame on the courts.

You can read this stuff int he paper. I watch those records like a hawk making sure these scumbags are not moving into my neighborhood. I get my nose up in those court files all the time. They had a repeat offender arrested, run him through the process and then release him. Two weeks later you read the paper again and the same guy is picked on a warrant. WHY IN the heck don't they serve the scumbags their warrants when they already have them in jail? I blame the courts for this. Just wasting tax dollars. But yet we read about how these deputies are run all over the county serving warrants and tied up. It is ridiculous.

If this county ever fixed the STUPID stuff this county would have lots of money and we wouldn't be reading this nonsense in the paper.

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WatchDog

Jul-23-13 3:02 PM

"Usally bereavement is spelled out in the contract."

Apparently it wasn't in this case. Or she would have never filed the grievance. Here is my take on it. If she won it then I am outraged she got this. Next they can have a stepson, whose has a great aunt that died and they will want paid for it and off three days. Now is she lost it then I want to know why a Union representative would allow to even go forward. Are the Unions not vetting these grievances or do they just pile them on, right or wrong?

These problems need rectified so the blatant waste of tax dollars STOPS.

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 2:57 PM

Well the coounty has created alot of its own budget problems.

Starting with Strabala,and cost over runs on the current jail etc.

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WatchDog

Jul-23-13 2:50 PM

Depends how you want to define lucky. LOL Are we fortunate to have what we have? By all means...I would dance on somebody's head if they ever tried to take away our local law enforcement. But in the reality, we both are still paying for BOTH Sheriff Department and Local protection. That is a fact. When the county has their budget problems we still face the county budget problems one way or another.

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 2:47 PM

Usally bereavement is spelled out in the contract.

Who it covers and how much time off.

I'm quite sure that both parties can be held accountable at time,

BS by the union and failure of management to honor it's terms.

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 2:41 PM

I have no answers,Guess we should feel lucky to have the Salem and Perry Twn police depts.

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 2:38 PM

Apperantly rpmwwe's statement earlier was correct.

The main function of the sheriffs dept is to serve warrants,transport prisoners to and from court,medical facilities and run the jail.

Provide protection for the court system.

And if there's enough money left in the budget to provide road patrol.

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WatchDog

Jul-23-13 2:31 PM

"If watchdogs statements merits the truth."

Ladybug just for the record, these on not my statements to find merit in...these stories were in the news.

Look at the last taxpayer absorbed grievance. A dispatcher I believe it was wanted three days paid off for her stepson's grandfather's funeral. They said no...she filed a grievance on it. Don't know the outcome but it still costs us money either way. It is ridiculous crap like this that eats away a budget.

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WatchDog

Jul-23-13 1:58 PM

This bickering in this article by these three are ridiculous with this finger pointing blame game. The public does NOT need this rhetoric. FIX THE PROBLEMS. That is why I am blaming all three. All three are just as responsible as the other one. You don't play games with the public's safety.

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WatchDog

Jul-23-13 1:53 PM

The HUGE POINT I was trying to make...those grievances cost money and those grievances are just many of the things that contribute to the whole big picture why this county has only a couple deputies on patrol.

When these deputies are tied up on transporting prisoners to court and having to come off the roads to walk released inmates down a flight of stairs those are just more of the contributing factors as to why their response times look like crap and the public suffers the consequences of it. Guess what? Knox Twonship pays for those grievances too. WE ALL PAY FOR THIS. Every acts like just because Knox Township doesn't like the response time, just start your own police dept. rhetoric. They are already paying for those services. We do right here in Salem. Whether it's through sales taxes, property taxes, blah blah blah.

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Truth101

Jul-23-13 11:45 AM

Maybe Dave Johnson can investigate this after he gets done with the Recorders office investigation......lol

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 9:51 AM

If watchdogs statements merits the truth.

Then we the tax payer get what we diserve.

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 9:46 AM

Personally i'm still interested in watchdogs statement.

That a comprimise could have freed up more deputies.

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 9:42 AM

The fire depts was an example of sharing resources.

You die hard fire district buffs,

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 9:40 AM

I don't see anywhere that Knox Twn, was asking for top priority.

I thought the main complaint was a police off. was across the street and didn't respond.

With some kind of and agreement between local depts would benefit the public and of course provide back up for the responding deputy.

Not talking about every little call .

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concerned

Jul-23-13 9:26 AM

"To insinuate they should get their own police dept because funds are low in the county is not our choice to make." Wasn't insinuating that at all ladybug. I was just saying because they don't have their own dept. does not give them top priority. The county sheriff serves the whole county not just subdivisions that choice not to have their own police. If they don't like the service they are getting they are free to get their own. The county does the best they can with the man power they have. End of story. How did we get on fire depts.? The sheriff already said the police depts. do not have written up mutual aid agreements like fire depts. do.

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ladybug

Jul-23-13 8:54 AM

They had a fire out on 62 last night.

I'm willing to bet there was atleast 4 fire depts helping with that fire.

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