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Numbers up for Salem FD calls

January 13, 2013

SALEM — City firefighters responded to a lot more fires and other calls in 2012, with a 57 percent overall increase in the number of structure fires, including two arsons....

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(39)

WatchDog

Jan-20-13 3:19 PM

Fresh Mark, Butech, Quaker City Castings? Seriously, those three? You meant the City that caters to their "3 monkey" existence?

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WatchDog

Jan-20-13 3:03 PM

"I don't know. Also those of you wondering about "inflated numbers" talk to Fresh Mark, Butech, Quaker City Castings and ask them just how much it would have cost them had there not been a FD to respond within 3 mins"

That response time is meaning less if they don't have the equipment and the other contributing factors to suppress that fire.

That cute little yellow painted fire hydrant don't mean squat. It is what is coming up from that little fire hydrant that makes the difference. Having said that, there are areas in this city I pray never see a fire. There are water lines all over this city that are inadequate. I can promise you that is not the fault of the Fire Department.

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concerned

Jan-18-13 6:18 PM

KSbug79 Some good points you bring up. And yes Salem's reponse time is good, but the fire dept. is only about 1 mile from any point they have to protect, so it ought to be good. What is Perry twp.'s reponse time? They have a volunteer dept. and more rural area to protect. However they have the same protection class rating ( 5 ) as Salem, providing there is a fire hydrant within a 1000 ft of the building. So how is Salem being full time with probably a better reponse time than Perry any benefit with our protection class rating? Which is what our insurance rates are based on. Isn't ISO saying Perry's vol. dept. is just as effective as Salem's full time dept. providing water is available?

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GrantMingus

Jan-18-13 1:46 PM

I don't have much of an opinion on the matter nor do I know what the call was today, but for what it's worth, I did see a fire truck blaring sirens through town today, followed immediately by an ambulance.

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KsBug79

Jan-18-13 11:12 AM

Concerned, when you are comparing demographics keep in mind the industry base, not just population or homes. For instance, you can't compare Canfield to Salem, they have no idustry, they have no hospital. Do they even have nursing facilities? I don't know. Also those of you wondering about "inflated numbers" talk to Fresh Mark, Butech, Quaker City Castings and ask them just how much it would have cost them had there not been a FD to respond within 3 mins. Qcity says, no one wants to see a building burn but everyone has ins. Now THERE'S some logic for ya!!!

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WatchDog

Jan-17-13 1:19 PM

Qcityfan what you wrote is exactly why I wrote this in a comment earlier.

"It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this divide between police and fire.

If that police department was turned loose and started wiping out the crime and drugs in this city and changing the makeup of this community, those boys at the Fire department know dang well those statistics are going to drop."

The bigger picture we fail to look at!

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WatchDog

Jan-17-13 12:42 PM

Concerned, You wrote... "If we looked at other areas, I think we would fine that there are very few areas with the population of Salem that has that many full time firemen."

I apologize I didn't realize you meant it to be per home and income levels for a tax base. I understand your meaning now. I thought you meant total population. But I still don't like those comparisons theories because it is not an accurate comparison. There are just to many contributing factors to sort through to even get a close comparison to copy cat. To even get an overall comparison would require a lot of research. From home values, sq mile coverage, neighborhood and business zoning, FD staff, equipment, communications, water supply, etc etc. There are no two cities alike.

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qcityfan

Jan-17-13 9:27 AM

So ............. given the few number of true fire emergency calls that we actually experience, could we not handle the answer to those calls for, say, half the expense we currently pay. Most people think the answer is yes.

Unless you believe the taxpayers are supposed to be saddled with the cost of sending out million dollar fire trucks every time there is a bat in somebody's attic, or there is a minor fender bender, or to permit the fire department to turn itself into "first responders" (the newly adopted public sector union buzzword)and thereby include over 800 calls in their statistics for being called out, then we need to truly evaluate what our priorities are in this city, and start re-allocating our resources accordingly.

The clock continues to tick.

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qcityfan

Jan-17-13 9:20 AM

Watchdog and Concerned both make valid points and provide excellent rationale in doing so. We all know we have a bloated fire department and could do a much better job reallocating resources spent on the fire department over to the police department in order to help take care of what should be our number one priority: getting rid of the crime element in Salem before we completely lose our city. We also know that the massive padding of the statistics disseminated by the fire department is simply to make it appear that we should be beholden to it. But, when you really, really cut to the chase, and get down to the actual number of true fires that need fire department responses, and then divide that number into the huge fire department budget we find that we are basically spending well over $100,000 per true fire emergency call. That seems astoundingly high. No one wants to see a structure burn down, but almost all structures are insured. So ..............

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concerned

Jan-16-13 7:51 PM

Sorry for the double post.

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concerned

Jan-16-13 7:50 PM

Watchdog You can certainly disagree with me if you want but population is important in determining the structure and number of full time firemen that can be afforded. It takes a larger tax base than Salem has to continue paying for a 100% full time fire dept. 24/7. That was my point. there are entities much larger in population and area that is covered, than Salem FD has to cover that don't have 100% full time fire fighters that do a good job at covering their areas.

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concerned

Jan-16-13 7:50 PM

Watchdog You can certainly disagree with me if you want but population is important in determining the structure and number of full time firemen that can be afforded. It takes a larger tax base than Salem has to continue paying for a 100% full time fire dept. 24/7. That was my point. there are entities much larger in population and area that is covered, than Salem FD has to cover that don't have 100% full time fire fighters that do a good job at covering their areas.

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WatchDog

Jan-16-13 5:01 PM

It's not nice to mislead the public!

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WatchDog

Jan-16-13 4:56 PM

"The loss of property and contents recorded was $209,950 and the value of saved property and contents was estimated at $22.9 million based on property values."

I could have fun with Hough on that statement alone.

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WatchDog

Jan-16-13 4:50 PM

...that rating. That rating will never happen anytime soon in Salem.

If I am wrong on this then the boys at the FD can jump in here and correct me. 40 percent of their overall grade is based on our local water supply. Believe you me that factor works against them and not their fault.

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WatchDog

Jan-16-13 4:38 PM

Concerned, my dear, I disagree with this.

"If we looked at other areas, I think we would fine that there are very few areas with the population of Salem that has that many full time firemen." Population doesn't mean squat. That is not the question because I can guarantee you this, if we did base it on that...then the FD is "understaffed".

There are only three factors that challenge our need for our FD and staffing levels and their overall rating specifically pertaining to the ISO and how they grade them in their effectiveness especially when it affects overall insurance rates.

All that nuisance junk in that article doesn't count and that statement Houghs made about them earning their money...is just a bargaining chip.

If you think all this nonsense in this article is going to get them a better class rating it isn't going to happen. First, the Salem Fire Department will never see a class one rating. There isn't but maybe 50 FD in the whole USA that has th

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WatchDog

Jan-16-13 3:24 PM

....(how much clearer does all of this have to be)....Berlins says "....and the end of a grant paying for the salaries of two firefighters, all contributing to the shortage."

People if you haven't figured this all out yet then you never will. It is right before your eyes...as taxpayers.

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WatchDog

Jan-16-13 2:51 PM

Kozy asks "12 to 20 minutes? Is that true?"

Guess we would have to see the statistics. Prior to and after the Salem FD decided they needed to ambulance chase. If it is true, then I blame the Salem Fire Department for giving these ambulance services the excuse to take their good old time getting there because they know the FD is going to be on the scene driving up their personal agenda statistics.

I see it as a FD interfering and manipulating a service I have to pay for out of my own pocket and a system that is blatantly wasting tax dollars.

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Kozy62

Jan-16-13 2:22 PM

I know this is a different area but have to share this...at one of the busiest intersections at 8am...there was a man off the side of the road (20 feet) waving his hands to the folks around him to let him alone...

There were two motorcycle city police, four city patrol cars, an EMT vehicle and a fire truck. They were blocking an entrance lane and two of three thru lanes. I wonder if anyone else needed help? The traffic was backed up for almost two miles.

Just seemed funny to me.

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Kozy62

Jan-16-13 10:33 AM

12 to 20 minutes? Is that true?

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concerned

Jan-16-13 6:38 AM

ladybug says: " Wrong again. Salem being paid ,with hydrants should provide the best rates" Partially true ladybug. Fire hydrants do play a big roll in the ISO protection class rating. However whether a dept. is full time, part time or volunteer is not a factor. The qualification of those firemen are but not employment status. Case in point. Salem is a PC 5, Perry twp., if there are hydrants within a 1000 feet. is also a PC 5. there are even 100 % volunteer depts. with better ratings than than Salem. Why? Because they have better equipment and other factors, but having full time paid firement is not one of the factors that goes into the ISO ratings. And the ISO ratings is one of the biggest factors for determining your insurance rates.

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concerned

Jan-16-13 6:22 AM

The question is not who is more important the police or the fire dept. They are both very important. The real question is the current structure of the fire dept. the most economical and best fit for Salem. Does any other area the size of Salem require 4 full time firemen on duty 24/7? I think we have to seriously ask ourselves that question. If we looked at other areas, I think we would fine that there are very few areas with the population of Salem that has that many full time firemen. I think we would find that areas Salem's size probably have a combination full time/ part time /volunteer dept. the only ones that do have that many full timers has a strong union presence

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WatchDog

Jan-15-13 7:31 PM

Ksbug stop blowing smoke. These statistics are being driven up to raise their class rating. The effectiveness of their jobs are based on it.

They are playing a dangerous game with the PPC. Insurance companies thrive on those ratings. What these boys are doing is driving up insurance rates and diminishing property values. The most destructive thing that can happen to a small community. These boys and these statistic drives are not helping Salem resident homeowners. And I got news for you, the more the crime in this area goes on the rise and the statistics at that fire department grows is not doing the city of Salem any favors.

Well guess what? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this divide between police and fire. If that police department was turned loose and started wiping out the crime and drugs in this city and changing the makeup of this community, those boys at the Fire department know dang well those statistics are going to drop.

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WatchDog

Jan-15-13 6:45 PM

If the Salem FD is pushing for their own ambulance service to get a piece of that pie the medical profession has created...it isn't going to happen. The liability on the city would be huge. Good lord, when are you people going to start facing the music...they are public servants...they have to be non-profit organizations.

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WatchDog

Jan-15-13 6:27 PM

"If the ambulance is in Sebring, you.are.going.to.die. that is if Watchdog has his way!!"

SHE SHE SHE, not he...goodness! If I had my way this city would be saving a lot money. And that F.D. wouldn't have to be scratching the bottom of a barrel begging for money, driving up statistics to justify their existence and picking up half the duties they should not even be carrying.

NO I am not a cop. Just a person with enough common sense that knows, a police department is the back bone of success to any city. Take a look at the makeup of this community, we don't get it under control and cleaned up those boys at that FD will be busy.

And please knock off the drama queen routine. I didn't say they can't roll out of emergencies, I am saying this crap and them chasing after an ambulance because somebody calls for a transport to a hospital or care center...there butts don't need to rolling out those units. That is just a waste of tax dollars.

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